Pastor Don Barnett speaks out against those who are upset at those who give good reports
Posted by Don on 1/30/2003, 6:43 pm
12.231.65.179
I am disturbed by the attitudes that blame a happy, loyal, committed church for offsetting false accusations, blame and criticalness of their pastor, by coming to his defense! This shows a deep prejudice and a bad spirit, for people always come to the defense of their loved ones who are unfairly maligned! That's what witnesses in court are for.

The real problem is when people won't come to the rescue of their friends that are being unfairly treated!
The idea that one can injure the reputations of others (whom they have no dealings with), with accusations without proof, with long distance judging, assumptions and hearsay, judging motives, etc. (all contrary to the Bible), and think that's OK – is, itself very wrong!

But when they go even further and blame those who know the accused person best and come to his defense with a good, true report about him, his ministry and the blessing they are receiving, and then for the accuser to say, "this is wrong", is espousing a very twisted demonic ideology, indeed! It's Biblically and morally wrong to injure others by ruining their reputations, publicly, without necessity – and with nothing but assumptions, gossip, bias and prejudice to go by!

It is always right to defend those being unjustly attacked! In fact, it is legitimate to tell all the good about a close friend if only his faults are held up so he will be demeaned! A person should be judged by his overall life and by his heart, not just by his weak areas or faults! And, in fact, if a person repents of a sin and is forgiven by God and his church and he walks no longer in that sin, it's wrong to bring that sin to people's attention! That's not doing to others what you would like them to do unto you, as Scripture commands! Besides, it is very hypocritical! How would the accuser feel if God (or others) exposed all of his sins and faults?

Oftentimes, the accuser is doing far worse, spiritually than the one they accuse! Lanny and Bob take note! Often the accuser is backslidden and is sinning with every judgmental, tale-bearing, gossiping accusation they make – and is esteemed far less in God's sight and is doing far less good for God and saints, than the one accused!
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to Don
Posted by Leslie on 1/30/2003, 7:02 pm, in reply to "Pastor Don Barnett speaks out against those who are upset at those who give good reports"
198.81.26.167
Dear Don,
I feel your letter was a sweeping generalization. I have found MANY times people here rejoice when someone gives a good report about your church in Renton. You can only have so many posts, though, about the exact same thing ie "I'm moving on in God, I love Jesus, I'm reaching out to my bretheren, and I am learning what agape really is" etc.
Once there is somewhat a line of communication established, a few questions arise. And isn't that also perfectly normal? If we ask specific questions like french kissing during a service, we would appreciate an exact answer. French kissing during a church service stumbles many of us here, and we say so.
Remember that this is a discussion board, rather than a sermon board. If you feel accused, you are not reading most posts here, but rather a spattering here and there. Most have said they have a huge respect for you, and what we learned from your ministry. Just because we no longer trust your judgement doesn't mean we attack you. As for Lanny and Bob, I am SURE they have been more careful with you than the majority who were under your leadership at the Chapel. I know Lanny has been incredibly careful, while maintaining honesty with us. As for Bob, although he has said much, I know he has left much unsaid. Still, he is a man with a mind of his own, and has lots to share with us here, who understand his way of thinking.
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Re: to Don
Posted by Lou on 1/30/2003, 9:07 pm, in reply to "to Don"
67.26.90.208
Don, perhaps if you would directly respond to some legitimate questions that have been posed on this board it would not be necessary for your congregation to open themselves up to criticism.
Loyalty is completely understandable, but you really do have an obligation to respond to some questions that have been asked with sincerity.
I know you are 74 and heading towards the end of your life and really have little motivation to change, but it would be helpful to many people to have some basic facts clarified.
As for Lanny...shame on you. He has probably shown more restraint and reasoned approach than almost anyone on this board. I have had no contact with Lanny for nearly 15 years and never communicate with him only indirectly on this board. I am certain that even your own people would attest to the restraint and fairness that he displays.
Come on Don let go of the fear and be real! We are not looking for blood, we just want some answers.
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Let Pastor take the witness stand
Posted by Harpadzo on 1/30/2003, 9:38 pm, in reply to "Re: to Don"
198.81.26.167
Many of you have heard loads of one-sided information about the split, Pastor Barnett, and the Church of Agape. Pastor now enters the fray and gives his perspective and principles, and I think that it behooves even the most rabid anti-Barnett person to give him the courtesy of letting him say what's on his heart and mind. You may disagree or want more information, but at least allow the dialogue to proceed in a civil, Christian manner.
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Re: Let Pastor take the witness stand
Posted by Gordy on 1/30/2003, 9:50 pm, in reply to "Let Pastor take the witness stand"
64.169.13.141
I agree but it needs to be a two way conversation. I for one would welcome dialogue that is give and take where appropriate.
I am all for Don making his case without a lot of ....... or......
God is certainly
Gordy
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Gordy I think you are becoming out of control with your new toy! :)
Posted by Lou on 1/30/2003, 9:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Let Pastor take the witness stand"
67.26.95.63
but I have to admit it is just too darned cute!

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You know what they say....
Posted by Gordy on 1/30/2003, 10:09 pm, in reply to "Gordy I think you are becoming out of control with your new toy! :) "
64.169.13.141
A picture is worth a thousand words. The crappy way and speed I type make any shortcuts welcome!!
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who is stopping him?
Posted by Steve M on 1/30/2003, 9:50 pm, in reply to "Let Pastor take the witness stand"
63.162.231.85
and Mark,
very few have heard only one side regarding the split....Except that many at COA have only heard Don's side.
I eagerly await something from Don other than blame, switching issues, and building straw man arguments.
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Re: Let Pastor take the witness stand..response
Posted by Lou on 1/30/2003, 9:51 pm, in reply to "Let Pastor take the witness stand"
67.26.95.63
I could not agree more, that is why I find his unfortunate attacks on detractors as unsettling.

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Pastor on the witness stand?
Posted by Robbin on 1/31/2003, 7:03 am, in reply to "Let Pastor take the witness stand"
67.3.54.106
Sounded more like he was at the prosecutors table to me, pointing the finger and naming names.
Like Lou said, post here fine, but at least answer some of the questions.
I must say that I, for one, am not too receptive to the continual condemnation and blame that comes from some of the recent posters here, and that includes this last one from Don.
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I will ask my question again?
Posted by Lou on 1/30/2003, 9:31 pm, in reply to "Pastor Don Barnett speaks out against those who are upset at those who give good reports"
67.26.88.152
Could you please indicate to me what would have been the motivation of the entire eldership to confront you as they did back in the late 80's?
Was it a gigantic demonic conspiracy to seize money and power and destroy you, or was it done out of love and concern for you and the body? I would very much like to know what your answer would be.
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Re: To Don, "those who give good reports"
Posted by candy on 1/30/2003, 10:05 pm, in reply to "Pastor Don Barnett speaks out against those who are upset at those who give good reports"
64.12.96.168
Don,
I am happy to see you posting here. I hope you will actually read others posts and answer them, as this is a lively discussion board.
I heartily agree that it is good to come to the defense of those you love. I have found myself not defended by people I was counting on and this was a shattering experience.
I for one, am not upset with anyone giving a good report. I rejoice in what Christ is doing in lives around the world, not just in my sphere. I must say, I enjoy the reports that focus on what great things Jesus is doing much more than the reports that tell how great a church or pastor are.
Nevertheless I do agree with Leslie, that questions come up and we as a chapel-related family find the discussions very interesting and helpful. Many of us have been severely wounded unto death, and these free discussions have been a healing balm from God. My impression is that in nearly all the posts, most people are just trying to understand and resolve their experiences and thoughts. They are not trying to hurt or malign.
Many here have addressed you with gentleness, respect and forgiveness. Have you read those posts? Others have been deeply injured by past involvement with you and the Chapel and they need to express themselves also, to find help and healing. There is room for all of us.
I am sorry that you are at the center of so much hurt and controversy, but this comes with the territory when you are a public person, a church leader and a regular public speaker. The person in the public eye is firmly held responsible for his words and actions. Public figures are watched very closely and are judged more often. There is just no way around it.
Just because we question things doesn't mean we don't rejoice in the good that God is doing.
With all that, I must add that your idea that God holds some people in "higher esteem" than others is extremely offensive to me. In all my experience and learning, God has shown me just the opposite. His great love is for all of us and cannot be measured. He doesn't have favorites. That is more of a human trait than a divine one.
Please try to listen here, besides posting your thoughts. If you are going to post here there is no excuse for not having your own internet connection so you can respond in a timely manner. You can get your own dial up connection at home for just $12.95 a month at AOL!
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Re: To Don, "those who give good reports"...AMEN!!
Posted by ~K.M.~ on 1/30/2003, 10:43 pm, in reply to "Re: To Don, "
67.233.8.137
AMEN CANDY,
My answer to this part of your posting:

"With all that, I must add that your idea that God holds some people in "higher esteem" than others is extremely offensive to me. In all my experience and learning, God has shown me just the opposite. His great love is for all of us and cannot be measured. He doesn't have favorites. That is more of a human trait than a divine one."
Candy, I AGREE, according to what my Bible says:
1 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4and said to them, "You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.' So they went. 5Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. 6And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle,[1] and said to them, "Why have you been standing here idle all day?' 7They said to him, "Because no one hired us.' He said to them, "You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.'[2]
8"So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, "Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.' 9And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. 10But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius. 11And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, 12saying, "These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.' 13But he answered one of them and said, "Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?' 16So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen."[3]
There will be NONE greater than another in Heaven!
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thanks K.M. I had forgotten that parable!
Posted by candy on 1/31/2003, 9:55 pm, in reply to "Re: To Don, "those who give good reports"...AMEN!!"
64.12.104.54
..
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Re: Pastor Don Barnett speaks out against those who are upset at those who give good reports
Posted by John Henry Jackrabbit on 1/30/2003, 11:41 pm, in reply to "Pastor Don Barnett speaks out against those who are upset at those who give good reports"
67.250.176.244
Lets see DB says:
Oftentimes, the accuser is doing far worse, spiritually than the one they accuse! Lanny and Bob take note! Often the accuser is backslidden and is sinning with every judgmental, tale-bearing, gossiping accusation they make – and is esteemed far less in God's sight and is doing far less good for God and saints, than the one accused!
And Mark says:
but at least allow the dialogue to proceed in a civil, Christian manner.
And Bob says:
You have got to be kidding me. DB can do anything and say anything but we are bad. This is the sick logic that goes on all the time at COA.
Bob Sackett
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Re: Pastor Don Barnett speaks out against those who are upset at those who give good reports
Posted by Garren on 1/31/2003, 4:42 pm, in reply to "Pastor Don Barnett speaks out against those who are upset at those who give good reports"
165.121.37.243
Don
I, for one, am never upset to hear good report. I strongly agree that if a person is in the required mindset, they can get really blessed at COA. Some of my favorite people still attend, and notwithstanding the occasional disapproving leer right around worship time, Id still like to be free to drop in, to fellowship and offer, with your permission.
I dont know the full story about who said what, and who hurt who, but I would like to believe that the seated pastor in the church where I became a real Christian is humble and willing enough to see the deep issues that haunt this board, and then make the best attempt possible to rectify them. ( forgive the long sentence). There are only a select few who post here that come right out and say what they think about you, COA, the past, etc, but the vast majority are in fact supportive of restoration, without blame or animosity. True, some are hurt more deeply than others, and if what they say is true about you, then you are not only aware of it, but it is an obligation to to try to set it right. If it is simply not true, then say so. There may be provable instances that people would understand for some of these things, however not everybody wants an explaination as to why things went the way they did, nor do they want blood. Just simple repentence.It seems easy enough, but I dont know all the details as to why this area is such a problem spot for repentence. ( Unless you truly feel youve done nothing wrong).
At any rate, I dont mean to try and preach to you, or teach you as this is not my postion or calling. I do believe it to be your calling, and I desire the restoration so I can be blessed by God through your knowledge and abilities. I believe you to be a very good man, Don, and if a person could see deep in your spirit, they would see a man desirous of God.
We all have demons, whether we acknowledge them or not, and those demons never sleep. All we can do is cry out to the Lord for the right thing to do. I believe you know what the right thing to do is, and I truly want to believe it is your heart to do it. I look forward to future corraspondence with you. I still love you, and the saints of COA with a deep Agape love, and I earnestly and fervently pray that the Lord will do this restoring work in all of us.
With love and respect, in Christ
Garren
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Same old B.S.!
Posted by Moses on 2/1/2003, 12:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Pastor Don Barnett speaks out against those who are upset at those who give good reports"
67.3.55.90
Said it before and I'll say it again: CC ended up being the Church of B.S.! (for you sensitive-eared folks: bologna & salami!) Sounds like it's the same old crud. Personally, it just rolls off me like a fried egg on a slick teflon pan surface!
Is that the ultimate test of closure and forgiveness? I don't even care anymore! Now, I do care about people who are still deceived by DB and suffering but not if DB blames or apologizes or rants & raves. PASTOR Don Barnett! I say poop to his still being referred to as Pastor.
Gena, I agree w/ you: it's not even in the rear view mirror anymore!
Moses
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Moses, as I said in another post it may be time to fish or cut bait!
Posted by Lou on 2/1/2003, 12:16 pm, in reply to "Same old B.S.!"
67.24.56.165
I am afraid the man is too old, too set in his ways, too unwilling to come to grips with certain basic truths to ever see the light of day.
It is time for me to throw in the towel on this one.
Thanks for your post, time to move on!
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Cut bait! Yeah!!!
Posted by Moses on 2/1/2003, 5:58 pm, in reply to "Moses, as I said in another post it may be time to fish or cut bait!"
67.3.63.14
What a good saying. Let's see....I feel I've cut bait, moved on. Rebaited the hook (with a worm that isn't rotten), found much better fishing @ a new fishing hole (church) and don't desire the old rotten manna of CC any longer. It's gagged in my nostrils.
But I know not everyone is in the same place and some people may really want to hear from DB whether it's the same old B.S. or not! :o)
Moses
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Believing Lashon Hara about a known transgressor.
Posted by Anthony W. Savini on 2/3/2003, 4:11 pm, in reply to "Pastor Don Barnett speaks out against those who are upset at those who give good reports"
198.77.181.7
When the subject is an established wicked person such that it is publicly known he repeatedly, flagrantly violated well known commandments - such as adultery and similar acts - it is permissible to believe the Lashon Hara.
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Pastor Don Barnett speaks out against those who are upset at those who give good reports - Don 1/30/2003, 6:43 pm